March 20, 2011 at 6:46 am #16920
I must admit, when I read your post the emotional part of me took hold. I then read all the replies and the emotion became logic. You’re right in some aspects, there are people who own pit bulls for the ‘danger’ aspect and some because it’s ‘cool’ and others because (like most of the people I know from other sites I frequent) they love and RESPECT the individual dog they own.
I personally do not know any lawyers, but I do know doctors that own pits. My own doctor actually has 3 of them. 3 girls, all spayed and well taken care of/loved. My mother in law is a Registered Nurse (Going to school to be a Nurse Practitioner) and she has owned Pit bulls for at least the last 30 years. Each one of her children (My husband and his sister) were raised with a pit bull in the house. Sometimes more than one. I also don’t personally know any scientists. As far as my profession? I am a Customer Service Agent for AT&T.
As far as how much someone makes a year, that I don’t know either because it’s none of my business to ask someone how much they make and I really don’t care. So I may or may not know someone who makes over 100k who owns a pit bull.
Now, I want to tell you that I am sorry for the loss of your cat. It angers me that someone let their animal kill yours because it makes pit bull owners in general look bad and it was a preventable death. I hope you get the justice you deserve for what happened with that.
About the ‘lock-jaw’ thing. Like someone above me said, I can take anything out of my dogs mouth that I don’t want her to have because I am her Alpha. She answers to me and she knows it. I actually own 2 pit bulls. One of them a pure APBT, the other a pit/lab mix. Both females, only one spayed because the youngest is only 4 months old. Once she hits 6 months, she too will be spayed. Both of them were/are around other dogs/cats and my children. Neither of them have ever shown any kind of aggression.
I don’t do dog parks because there isn’t one in my town or within driving distance. Instead, my neighbor and I (my puppy’s brother’s owner) take the pups and their mother to my mother in law’s farm and let them run and play there with her Jack Russel. As far as exercise in the town I live in, I follow all leash laws and other restrictions (pooper scoopers etc.) and I’ve never had a problem. Other dogs will bark at mine, but mine pay them no mind. They have one thing on their mind on our walks. Walking with me and enjoying the outdoors. They go everywhere with me.
I reccomend that you take a look at the link posted above (if you haven’t already) and see the breed statistics.March 20, 2011 at 10:28 am #16921
I work Customer Service too for a German company the supplies equipment to the motion picture industry. My Wife works for our local animal shelter where we got our Pit. Through her I’ve spent more than a little time with pits.
As I posted earlier, there was a Shi Tzu turned in to the shelter last week for biting it’s owners daughter in the face. The wound required six stitches to close.
My good friend’s Yorkie has been known to snatch birds out of the air!!
Maybe they have some Pit in them? 😉
We love our girl and many the time it is on a walk she’s picked up something and started chewing it where I’ve shoved my hand into her mouth to get it… much to the amazement of passersby who ask why she didn’t bite me.March 20, 2011 at 12:52 pm #16922
V’s-daddy- yesterday on our walk, Bella found a Pine cone and I took it from her and got the same look.March 20, 2011 at 10:35 pm #16927bellasdadParticipant
i am by no means educated, i am a Marine, as is my wife and together we make over 100k a year if that counts? i own my pit because i love the breed and hate the reputation they get, i have loved these dogs since i watched the “lil rascals” and i wanted a dog like theirs. i got my pit from an irresposible owner who underfed her and showed her no love, took her from her mother too young and lied about the pups age, my dog is loving and shows that she feels real guilt like a child when she does something wrong. research the breed and you will understand they werent bred to hurt people but irresposible owners teach them to. i am sorry about your cat i truely am. but just a lil peice of info i am part of a pitbull club that tries to promote the breed to the public one of our members has a pit/lab mix and two pure pits and he says that his pit/lab mix is the meanest that she is mean to his other dogs and doesnt do well with his children, but his pits are great with his kids and each other. please do some reading about the breed and educate yourself about them and maybe you will no longer be a cat person, this could be your chance to cross over to the dark side and see how wonderful pits areMarch 21, 2011 at 2:29 am #16929rebeccajoshuaosheaParticipant
Initially, after reading the initial comment on this thread, my emotions took over. I am, by nature, a woman–we are born to be emotional beings, and I am true to that, right down to the ‘t.’
However, when it came to adopting our pit, it was all about how we connected with him on ALL levels. We took the time to research the breed, to decide if it was indeed the best for us. We knew it’d be a challenge in the beginning, simply because pitbulls are known for their stubborn nature and strength. HOWEVER, this was not going to stop us from weighing the pros and cons of owning a pit. Our community has no ban on pits, but rather “vicious” animals. We took walks with him weekly for two months straight before we decided he was right for us–my husband’s in construction and I am a music teacher. We took him out into our community immediately, to get him acquainted with any and all who may meet him someday.
We’ve owned other dogs in our families–labs, husky mixes, retrievers…none have been so obedient, intelligent, and lovable as our pitbull. I sympathize with the loss of your pet–BELIEVE me, if something (dog or not) had killed a pet of mine, I’d be devastated, and would want justice. But we’re taking steps in our family to ensure the safety of all around us, including that of our pitbull, O’Shea. We’d be doing him a HUGE dis-service if we didn’t train him, and continue this training throughout his life.March 21, 2011 at 1:35 pm #16930
I just wanted to comment that my 3 year old just held a treat, commanded my 5 month old pit bull to sit (which she did) and then fed the small treat to her and patted her head. If that’s vicious, I’d hate to see what friendly was.March 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm #16932
I think the problem is that people on either side tend to make blanket statements.
Pits… either you love ‘em or hate ‘em.
Can I blame someone for hating them after one killed her cat? No. In all honesty, I bet I’d feel the same way if I were her.
I have a great Pit. Having said that, my Wife works at the shelter we adopted Vanilla from and there’s Pits there that I don’t like turning my back on even with a cage door in between us. They are really jacked up and are usually bite cases which unfortunately wind up being euthanized as they can’t be adopted out.
I see part of the problem being people who walk into a shelter and in their words “fall in love” with a dog. I walked Vanilla for 4 months before we decided to adopt her. I knew her and what she was about.
She’s done nothing but improved since leaving the shelter and sleeps with our cats.
I also took her to a dog park Friday where she was running around with a pug. She’s such a goofball!
Bottom line is know what you’re adopting and it’s temperament. Don’t make a snap decision that may wind up biting you in the ass (pun intended).March 21, 2011 at 9:23 pm #16933
I just wanted to chime in a little bit, because, although I guess I fall into the “emotional” and “uneducated” category as a dog groomer, I do in fact have a lot of experiance with all types of dogs. I have personally been bit by only a couple of dogs, and none of them meet anyone’s description of “dangerous”, one was a yorkie, one an american eskimo, a poodle. And, I didn’t set out to get a pit, she just fell into my lap one day 2 years ago, and after, I looked for an owner for tha alloted time, I decided to keep her. I have 3 cats, 2 kids, and a slew of other dogs in my immediate family, so I threw myself into researching her breed, and decided that I would have a poster child for the breed. And in many ways, I feel she is. I take her to the park all the time, and she plays well with everyone, but I also closely supervise to keep play from turning bad. She was ans still is very well sociallized, as she grew up behind the counter at the shop where I work. I was attacked by a dog many years ago, he was a pit mix that had been taught the wrong way to behave, and I do not allow any kind of bad behavior. Since I decided to keep her, I have always asserted myself as the leader, and my dog rspects that, that said, she and all the pets we have are animals, period, so I expect her to beahve like an anmial, a dog, a terrier, and then a pet. I realize that if I don’t stop something from turing bad, there could be a chance of injuries, and I never leave my dog ANYWHWERE unsupervised. I am just trying to raise the best dog I possibly can, and giving her and my family of animals the best life possible means that everyone listens to me. As another point of interest my kids can put their hands in my dog’s mouth, food bowl, kennel, whatever and take things from her if need be, she’s been taught that all humans are to be listened to and followed. Any animal can be mean or dangerous, a lab isn’t any less dangeous than a pit, or a yorkie, any dog can be taught to be aggressive, I know this to be a fact, I see it every day. The best thing for any dog, is excercise, discipline, and affection. Thanks for letting me ramble….Pittie Love!March 23, 2011 at 6:09 pm #16938reasonParticipant
Well, these posts have been very informative. Just to clarify, I’m not the one who lost a cat. That was another woman who replied. My post was prompted partly by a pre-exisiting curiousity into the reason people gravitate to pitbulls given their danger.
When I say “danger,” I mean two factors that combine here. One is the likelihood of attack vs other dogs. The other is the severity of the injury if they attack. Any dog owner who loves their dog is going to say their breed is harmless, loving, and the only possible harm is if they ‘just lick you to death.’ Pit owners are no different. Whether pits attack more or not, that’s a matter we can debate all day and never come to an agreement on.
What concerns me is the how disporportiontely severe a pit attack is vs most, if not all, other breeds. Physically, they’re compact, extremely muscular with tremendous jaw strength. More than just physical traits, they were bred for gamness to fight until death. In addition, their attack characteristics were specifically those that were most lethal, hence the ripping/shaking style of attack and never letting go of their target. They are not bad dogs, but they’re not just dangerous if they bite – they’re dangerous in a way most other dogs are not. We may not agree on the pit bull’s propensity to attack, but I would be stunned we cannot agree on the disproportionate lethality/serious injury potential of pits vs other breeds.
Also, just want to make this clear: higher income/iq etc are generally indicate smarter people. Smart people generally weigh risks better than others. People that are better at weighing risks generally don’t pick the option with the greater risk, ie a pet that if it bites, will harm a person or animal far more so than another breed. Seems like an unnecessary risk. Smart people generally do not take unnecessary risks. Do you see why smart people generally do not own pits now.
As to the doctor/lawyer/scientists owning pits, the same “smart people” logic applies. It’s nice to see a couple doctor examples as exceptions to the norm, but specifically, I’d like to see how many MDs own pits. Taking a wild guess here, but I’m gonna say its just a *tad* less than the general population, given their aversion to taking unnecessary risks with human life. And maybe the best indicator of this group is lawyers. They dissect the risk and liability meticulously for a living in cases far more complex than this pit bull issue. I’d like to see the percentage of them that own pits.
Finally, just google “pitbull owners” and go click on “images.” Scroll down the whole page. You seriously think other dogs have maimed people when you do the same search on them? Or is google images a conspiracy too? If nothing else, those scars/injuries just might start connecting to my point about the severity of their attack compared to other dogs. Long post, I’m good.March 23, 2011 at 6:47 pm #16939
You make some confusing statements.
“Also, just want to make this clear: higher income/iq etc are generally indicate smarter people. Smart people generally weigh risks better than others”
At the risk of being accused of quote mining, it sounds like you came in here just to tell us all that we were ignorant.
Then you say;
“Taking a wild guess here, but I’m gonna say its just a *tad* less than the general population, given their aversion to taking unnecessary risks with human life. And maybe the best indicator of this group is lawyers.”
I’m confused by that statement as your opening post included
“My guess is that if I get 10 responses to this post, only 2 of them will be more rational than emotional. Of those 2, hopefully 1 will keep twisted stats and logical fallacies to a minimum.”
You set up a straw man argument by saying the above yet all your statements stem from your personal feelings of predjudice regarding the intelligence of Pit Bull owners and, in your own words a “wild guess”.
It’s laughable that you accuse us, in advance of any evidence, of our replies being “logical fallacies” yet you haven’t produced one single piece of evidence to logically back up your position.
You have presented the accusation so it is incumbent upon YOU to prove your case.
The fact of the matter is that you are not interested in and likely not capable of any intelligent debate on this topic.
Good day to you Sir.March 23, 2011 at 10:22 pm #16940raisins momParticipant
I think everyone that has replied to your post has been polite and answered your questions in reasonable manner; and yet you still come onto a pro-responsible pitbull ownership site and take jabs at us. I am going to reiterate I am a 911 Operator so I make stressfull decisions everyday. Did I also mention my boyfriend is a law enforcement officer? So maybe our IQ’s are not high enough to put us through medical school, but everyday we deal with people of every economic level and shocker for you some of the richest people are the worst to their families and pets. Vice a versa some of the poorest will give their last cent to help another. IQ and wealth will not make you a good person nor determine if you make good decisions. It is unknown to me why you insist on this idea. Was it not Mark Madoff’s son who hung himself in his apt while his child was there? His father was wealthy, made poor decisions and wound up in prison. Apparently their high IQ’s that lead them to wealth did not help them in the area’s of good decision making.
I am begining to think you came on here just to incite us into fighting with you in hopes of saying that pitbull owners are as unstable as their dogs. I would say we proved you wrong.
You want to debate the the severity of a dog bite? Let’s see a larger dog will have a larger bite that just seems like common sense to me. In Omaha NE animal control just released a report showing labs have the highest bite record. You may wonder why? The answer is because they are popular in that area and that leads to higher chance of unsocialiezed dogs that bite. As for your comment regarding the bite, shake and hold I ask are you familiar with terrier breeds? Jack Russell terrier’s do the same things as a pitbull terrier does. They too have prey drives and were raised and breed to flush out rats, gophers and other small animals from their dens. Funny noone seems to notice when they chase cats or show signs of dog aggression. I forgot its cute when lil dogs have no manners and jump or bark at people. Those lil teeth can’t break skin ( yes that is ooozing in sarcasm).
What one needs to focus on is why at that moment the dog bite occured. Are you expecting a dog to reason like a human does? Cause you expect them to understand they did something wrong ? I am not one of those people who says my dog will never bite because I know he is fully capable of biting and doing damage. My response is I do the best I can to prevent my dog from being in a situation where he would feel he had to bite whether out of fear or for his protection.March 24, 2011 at 3:02 am #16941
Thank you Vanilla, and your daddy, well put! :} Love the pic btw, Lillie has 3 kitties of her own, and you’d think she loves them or something…the way she protects them and sleeps with them and all…March 24, 2011 at 3:08 am #16942
I always like the posts you put up, you seem, like me to love your dog, and understand that she is an animal. Hats off to you and your husband for what you do, I have a brother in law, his wife, and a nephew in law enforcement in Tampa, Fl, where in the last 5 months, we’ve had something like 8 officers killed, so, I know your career can’t be easy. Anyway, thanks for the words, and God bless.March 24, 2011 at 6:25 am #16943kendseycollinsParticipant
I can’t speak for all Pit Bull owners, but I can speak for me and my family. First, I am by no means a doctor or lawyer and I do not make over $100,000 a year, but I am an elementary school teacher and my husband is an electrician. If I thought that intelligence was based on what my yearly gross income was, I would not have poured my heart and soul into educating children. My husband and I have two kids and we own a beautiful American Pit Bull Terrier named Kaos. We did not purchase Kaos out of ignorance. We made an informed decision to bring a Pit Bull into our home after doing an extensive amount of research and after having interacted with several Pit Bulls in our community. We chose this breed for their loyalty, energy, playfulness, beauty and for their hardiness. We are fully aware that these dogs are extremely powerful and, if they wished, could impose a great amount of danger on a person or another dog. As far as the statistics go, I went to the American Temperament Test Society’s web page. The following are pass/fail percentages for several breeds I looked up- American Pit Bull Terrier, 86%, Beagle, 80.3%, Border Collie, 81.1%, Cardigan Welch Corgi, 78.6%, Collie, 79.9%, Golden Retriever, 84.6%, Miniature Poodle 77.9%, Toy Poodle, 82.4%, Papillon, 80%. Now, the American Pit Bull Terrier did not rank the highest, however, in response to your question, they did rank higher than the Golden Retriever. I have also included some of my own favorite breeds on this list. We ruled them out when making our decision to purchase a family pet. Now, as a responsible Pit Bull owner, I look at these statistics with an understanding that, if my Pit Bull were to attack somebody, or something, he could inflict much more damage than most of these other breeds. Because of this, I made sure that my dog was well socialized. We frequently visit our local off leash dog park, though we no longer let him run free (not because he is a Pit Bull, but because he is an un-cut male and now capable of mating.) We take him to family functions, parks, parades and camping. He wins hearts everywhere we go. As for the emotional aspect, I am a member of this web site because I love this breed. I have a very strong emotional relationship with my dog, as I’m sure many Golden Retriever and Papillon and Poodle owners do with theirs. To me, the loyalty and love that this breed is capable of invoking is yet another one of their best qualities. Also, to suggest that somebody who makes an argument from the heart can not also use good sense is irrational. Additionally, I guess that I am one of the 10% that understand your insinuations and, regardless of your intent, I was offended. I wouldn’t dream of going to a web site dedicated to another dog breed and questioning those enthusiasts on their IQ or income. Just my emotional, non-millionaire opinion.
Merry, I also would like to extend my sympathies for the loss of your pet. If you would like my advice, treat this dog the way you would have a pure bred lab attacking and killing your cat. I’m sorry if that sounds insensitive. It is not meant to, it just doesn’t make sense to me that you would treat the situation any differently than if a Poodle had attacked and killed your cat. It would have been just as much of a tragedy and it would have broken your heart just as badly. The fact that the dog was half Pit Bull does not warrant any more action than it would have otherwise. From personal experience, my husband and I have both owned labs, both have killed NUMEROUS cats and one had to be put to sleep because she because aggressive towards children! I’m not accusing all labs of being aggressive, only saying that it may be possible that the fact that this particular dog was part Pit may not be the reason it attacked your pet.March 24, 2011 at 6:44 am #16944kendseycollinsParticipant
My question, what is your IQ? Correct me if I’m wrong but the following quote is not proper grammar- “higher income/iq etc are generally indicate smarter people.” If it is your purpose to come to a Pit Bull enthusiast web page and argue that Pit Bull owners are not as intelligent as “the general population” you have failed. As to your Google remark, Google “Car Wreck.” How many millions of people are injured and killed by cars every year? Yet you do not question the IQ of people who own cars. According to your paradigm, cars are more capable of injuring people than bicycles, therefore intelligent people don’t own cars? Really? Honestly, the defense of ignorance by ignorant people will never cease to amaze me.
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